Interview with David Simon
by Jon Jordan

David Simon is the author of Homicide: A Year On The Killing Streets, and The Corner. He is currently the driving force behind The Wire on HBO.

JON:  What lead you to journalism?

DAVID:  My father was a writer by trade who started as editor of his college paper (NYU) and worked as a stringer for a couple NY area papers before taking public relations jobs and so newspapers and magazines were kind of revered in my home. He took me to see a revival of "The Front Page" when I was about twelve and that made an impression, too. Lastly, I grew up in the D.C. area and was an adolescent when my hometown paper was chasing the Watergate story. I read those stories daily in the paper or origin and the Woodward-Bernstein adventure helped seal the deal. Once I had the chance to edit my high school and college papers, I was done.

JON:  When did you decide to write Homicide: A Year On The Killing Streets and why?

DAVID:  The cheese-eaters running my newspaper, The Baltimore Sun, tried to take back a number of medical benefits in the 1987 contract negotiation. This, during a long, sustained period of growth for newspapers and the parent company of The Sun in particular. This led to a week-long strike of the newspaper, which though it settled, left me disgusted with management. I wanted to keep the job -- daily newspaper jobs were not so easy to come by -- but I didn't want to be in that newsroom for a while, so I looked for a leave-of-absence opportunity.. In 1985, I had visited the homicide unit and wrote a short narrative piece about the unit on Xmas Eve and it had gotten good attention. One detective, the late, great Bill Lansey had said, offhand, that if anyone ever were able to write a book about what goes on up there during even a single year...and I remembered his comment. I asked the police commissioner at the time and incredibly, he said yes. God bless him. His name was Ed Tilghman and he died before the book came out four years later.

JON:  Your writing seems to be almost with out opinions in it, more of a lengthy unbiased report on actual events. What made you choose this style of writing?

DAVID:  I have to disagree. I have my say whenever it seems to fit the narrative. All journalists have their say. Mine, however, is written in the communal voice of whatever culture I'm covering (i.e. the communal voice of the homicide unit, or the communal voice of the drug corner). You are able to interpose your own opinions, but in a way that does not seem as intrusive as straight journalism. But I would be lying if I said the journalism doesn't reflect my own choices as a reporter and a writer: what to say, what to emphasize, how to say it, what is true or untrue. All this is in there, but camouflaged so as not to do damage to the narrative point-of-view of the characters I'm writing about.

JON:  Your book with Edward Burns is almost the flip side of Homicide. It’s like the street side of the story. What brought about the collaboration with Burns to do this book?

DAVID:  Ed was a friend and a source from many years of reporting. He was planning to leave the department anyway in 1987 in order to begin teaching public school. We talked about trying to capture the nature of the urban drug culture and my editor, John Sterling, had suggested the idea of a year in the life of a city corner. Once we saw the possibilities, the only thing left to do was to pick a drug corner at random in a city that has maybe a hundred such places.

JON:  Could you describe how Homicide came to television?

DAVID:  My agents were peddling the book for a movie. It wasn't selling. I said, ignorantly, "Why not send it to Barry Levison? He's from Baltimore." They did so, to placate me if nothing else. Meanwhile, Barry had just signed a deal with NBC to develop television series and Gail Mutrux, an associate who was working with him, read the book and brought it to his attention as TV pilot fodder. Barry hooked up with Tom Fontana, who had worked on St. Elsewhere, and that was all she wrote.

JON:  What was your actual involvement in the show?

DAVID:  With my college friend David Mills, I co-wrote a script for first season that was so depressing that NBC didn't want to film it. In second season, when Robin Williams agreed to do the guest part, it did get filmed and it got some good attention. Tom Fontana offered me another script for season three, but I gave it to David solo because he was trying to establish himself in Hollywood and I was preparing to report The Corner, so I had no use for a Hollywood gig in any event. By fourth season, my newspaper had been taken over by a couple of shitheads from Philly, real self-aggrandizing hacks who were doing a lot of harm to the place and chasing a lot of the talent out. So I took another script and when that one aired with little rewriting, Tom offered me a staff job. I worked on the show from late fourth season until the end, during which time, Tom taught me everything he could about television drama.. I owe him a great deal and am proud to have worked for him.

JON:  What are some of the stranger stories you covered as a reporter?

DAVID:  I covered everything. City general assignment, crime, politics, whatever. I worked on the rewrite desk for a time because I was quick and clean. My bread and butter was city crime and the drug culture in particular. You name it, I could give you eighteen inches of clean copy in twenty minutes on deadline. I guess the strangest stuff were bizarre crimes, weird murders and the like. But I once wrote eighteen inches on three teenagers who got stuck in a tree in Herring Run park and had to be rescued by the fire department.. Mencken said journalists can write about cats or kings. It makes no difference.

JON:  The Wire is a wonderful show, and I understand it is coming back for another season. Where do you go after Season one?

DAVID:  To the port of Baltimore. New target. New case.

JON:  What are some of the advantages to working with HBO instead of a straight network?

DAVID:  They are very smart about story. They aspire to do shows that actually mean something and have some cultural resonance. Everyone else in TV is trying to entertain only. Also, it is hard to get them to green light a show because they want everything to be just so before they do. But once they're in, you know that they're going to air the full season and support the show, rather than cut and run after a couple episodes because the numbers are weak. Because they are not dependent on advertising, but on subscriptions, HBO programmers can commit to a show and allow the attention to build gradually.

JON:  What kind of feedback do you get on your work from people? Do cops like the books and shows?

DAVID:  Most of the cops I have talked to loved Homicide, the book, and about half were comfortable with what The Corner had to say. A lot of cops enjoyed Homicide as TV fare, as well. The Corner, less so, I think, though some in Baltimore called me to say they appreciated the accuracy of it. As to The Wire, I went drinking at the local FOP lodge a few months ago to see if they'd curse me down for the show. But most of the people there seemed to really enjoy it and the bureaucracy and dysfunction that it shows only delighted them in its relevance to their world. But maybe they were just being nice because I was at the bar.

JON:  What about the people in Baltimore. The view you give isn’t always cheerful. Do you ever get criticized for the bleakness?

DAVID:  Yes. The mayor, to his credit, told me to film The Wire here. (I went to him a couple years ago, before turning in the pilot, and told him it was bleak and that if he wanted me to film elsewhere I would, but to his credit he said no.) But I know he would like to see me write some happier shit. Also, the city council recently considered a resolution calling for improved imagery of the city to "counteract" the imagery of TV dramas in particular (of which mine is the only one current.) The film community objected to the council getting involved in such mattters (as a government body; individuals should be free to criticize) and for now, they have backed away. But again, nothing I've ever written is representative of Baltimore as a whole. Homicide was about the culture of violence, The corner about the culture of drugs within a certain area of Baltimore. The Wire is about both things and the failure of American institutions (re: Enron, Catholic Church, etc.) as well. I think everyone should offer a variety of stories about a variety of Baltimore cultures. The resulting collective will begin to approximate the whole city; no single story ever will.

JON:  What kind of things do you like to read? I noticed a episode of The Wire was written by George Pelecanos. Are you a crime fiction fan?

DAVID:  I read a lot of non-fiction. History, sociology, etc. I have become more of a fan of crime fiction through my friendship with Laura Lippman. I enjoy George's stuff (being a D.C. native myself) and Richard Price, especially. I am naturally a fan of Laura's as well. Haven't read too much past those three although I want to get to Dennis Lehane as I've heard such good things about Mystic River. Right now, I'm reading a lot of classics that I was supposed to get to in college and high school. Hope to die a bit less ignorant, I suppose.

JON:  Your female characters are very strong people. Are they based on anyone you actually know?

DAVID:  I tend to suspect that my female characters are, to quote a famous criticism of Hemingway, men with tits.. I think it is among my weaknesses and I work harder on those scenes, I think, because I feel vulnerable. In the journalism, the answer to your question is obvious: Fran Boyd is most definitely based on Fran Boyd, Tyreeka on Tyreeka. By allowing themselves to be portrayed and letting me get to know them, they allowed me to write women better than I otherwise would. Fictionally, Kima Greggs is based on a couple lesbian officers I knew, but largely, I write her as a man and then, I confess, its Sonja Sohn who adds all the subtlety in her performance. So, if it's thin ice, I'm still above it, at any rate.

JON:  Have you ever run into problems while researching or filming on the streets?

DAVID:  Nope. Most everyone I've met in my Baltimore journeys has been gracious and fair. This is a good city in a lot of ways. Lot of problems, lot of heart, too. I feel like if you are honest and direct with people, and if you keep your promises, things usually go right for the most part.

JON:  One of my favorite scenes from any of the work you are involved with is a scene from The Wire when the two detectives go to an old crime scene in a kitchen and they communicate using nothing but the word “fuck”. i thought it was brilliant. Do you have any personal favorites form any of your screen work?

DAVID:  That one was fun. I loved the scene where Herc and Carver and Prez had nearly caused a full-bore riot in the projects and then were later dressed down by Daniels while sitting lumpily on the rear of a police van the next morning. Daniels was wonderful in that, as were all the actors. I like anything that has an undercurrent of humor, which, frankly, is what makes the horror bearable. On Homicide, I am proud of the scene in "BopGun" where Danny Baldwin is bragging about how much OT he will make off the murder of a tourist. Detectives all across America sat up and smiled to hear such a cynical but honest moment on their TV screen.

JON:  Music is used very effectively on the Wire and was also used well in Homicide. Does music play a big part in your life? What do you like to listen to?

DAVID:  Everything. Rock 'n' roll, R & B, blues, C&W, bluegrass, jazz, bebop, Irish, whatever. I have a huge library of music and I used to play in some weakass bar bands back in the day. No talent, but like everyone else, I like to think I have a good ear for music and a good historical sense of everything from Willie McTell to Thelonius Monk.

JON:  What are some of your favorite movies?

DAVID:  Once Upon A Time In America, Dr. Strangelove, The Wild Bunch, The Searchers, Chinatown, Touch of Evil, to name a few. Oh yeah, Mean Streets, Goodfellas and of course The Godfathers One and Two and Miller's Crossing. And for comedies: Some Like It Hot, Animal House and The Producers.

JON:  What is your idea of a perfect weekend?

DAVID:  My son Ethan dictates terms and takes all my time. That's pretty perfect when I have the chance to let it occur.

JON:  Will you be writing any more books?

DAVID:  Yes. Trouble is, I'm having such a good run with HBO that I can't get free to begin the next book project. It's kind of like having a really big crack pipe to your mouth..

JON:  What’s the one thing always in your refrigerator?

DAVID:  Doggie bags from restaurants, uneaten and mouldering.